June 16th, 2011
I went 18 miles yesterday. Last time I ran longer than 17 was the Boston Marathon, April 2010 – long time ago. It wasn’t planned when I left the house, I was expecting to do 14 or 15 but the day was nice, I was running well and it seemed like a fun thing to do, just to see how 18 miles would feel. It was a great run, 8:11 pace with a low heart rate, no fatigue at the end, no wishing it was over, just enjoyment.
There really is something to be said about this casual increasing of distances and efforts. I like it so much that I plan to continue this model long-term (knocking on wood for continued health):
1. Summer base-building, completely low-key, emphasis on volume
2. firm it up for Fall racing, try to keep the mileage up through the season (racing will naturally interfere some, but it’s ok)
3. take 1-2 weeks off completely as Winter sets in, then
4. spend Winter running mid-60s to 70s (no way I’m doing 90mpw in wintry suck) – again keeping it casual
5. returning to 90mpw and race prep in the Spring.
The trouble with higher mileage in singles
As you know, I prefer doing all my runs in singles and so far, it’s been just fine. However, now that I’m adding in quality work, scheduling becomes more complicated. I only have one short day, Monday, which I consider to be a recovery day or “my little reward for having completed another chunky week” so it’s a putter day if I choose. That leaves me 6 days of double-digit runs in which to place speed and tempo workouts. This is why extending the Long Run to 18 and beyond is helpful, as it lets me shorten a workout day.
Not that it’s horrible to do a speed or tempo in the midst of a longer run, it’s just a pain in the ass. Because if I do it towards the front of the run, energy levels are good but that leaves a lot of miles afterwards. Alternately, if I wait towards the end of a run as I would for speedwork (because 1-2 miles is the most I want to deal with after that type of effort) then that’s an 8-9 mile warmup…a tad excessive.
Additionally, the day preceding a quality day will probably always be 14 or more, which means my legs aren’t exactly bouncy when it’s time to do the workout. And with my preference for 2 days between quality sessions…you see how it can be limiting.
On the other hand, quality days within longer runs aren’t the worst thing ever, it’s certainly good for endurance, but you have to accept that there will be some performance tradeoff. So if I find I’m too tired to do the workouts properly or that my progress is being held back because of it, I will either have to drop some mileage (even 5mi would help) or incorporate a couple doubles.
The good thing is that I’m satisfied with any progress at the moment and am in no hurry to get from A to Z. So I won’t be making any changes just yet, but this is an ongoing experiment and it’s interesting to see how these components will unfold as the workouts go from baby steps to Real.
My Goals and Revisiting Marathons
I wrote a post on the 3:20 thread the other day in response to the usual teasing from my forum pals about my “Great marathon training, Flo!” or asking me when my next Full is. It always makes me laugh and I haven’t said anything about goals in a long time because I stopped having any. Well, that’s not exactly true, I’ve had a sub-20 5K goal for almost 2 frickin’ years, lol, and if I don’t get it this Fall, there’s something seriously wrong with me (meaning, I’m confident it’ll happen).
But anyway, I finally said something goal-ish to my 3:20 pals because I wanted to admit I have one, even if it’s a while down the line. This is a goal I’ve secretly coveted for ages but dismissed for being impossible, but here it is back on the table… a 1:30 Half. NOTE: I have to make this super clear before anyone gives me a “you can do it!” before I’m ready; it ain’t gonna happen this year! It’s a 2012 goal but the fact that I even have it (and think it’s acquirable) is beautiful. So that’s my #1, long-term goal.
Now about those pesky marathons…
While on a run the other day, I got to thinking about the things I disliked about marathons and marathon training: those interminable long runs, the way improper nutrition or hydration can kill a race, that bad weather can crush months of hard training in an instant, not to mention my feet always get beat up and hurt like hell during a marathon. Then it hit me that two of those things are no longer applicable.
Long Runs are obviously not heinous anymore and 6 purple toenails later my feet are acclimated to constant pounding (crazy how bad my feet got the moment I raised my mileage, but all is well now). As for the other things, I still hate them. I haven’t had a gel on a training run since March 2010 and love not having to worry about it, and the thought of racing hard for 3+ hours in crappy weather turns my stomach. I’m not ever going to be someone who finds the challenge of those things exciting or something to rise above, it’ll always be irritating shit in my book.
Now here’s a thing: about a year and a half ago when I announced “no more marathons”, I told my friend Lara that there was one lone circumstance in which I’d reconsider the decision and that was if I could confidently go after a sub 3:10. It was a “when pigs fly” type of remark because I knew it was never gonna happen. But now I’m not so sure what I know or don’t know anymore – there’s really no telling where this new phase will lead.
If, for some crazy reason, I’m able to drop my times to where 3:09:59 seams feasible, then I actually would probably go for it. But I still don’t love the marathon distance, so please nobody expect me to be perusing Rock N Steal Your Money Roll’s website for the latest fab race any time soon, it’ll be a while, if ever.
So that’s what’s been going through my head lately. Since what I’m doing is pretty much marathon training. How ever the hell that happened.
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you and I are pretty different in terms of what our bodies can handle, but I feel like it’s a lot more tolerable to have my track interval days to be one of the higher days for the week- because either way I’m going to be zonked and have a slow day immediately afterward, so might as well not have to slog too far
not so bad to do: 1 mi run to the track, 3 mi warm-up w/group gradually increasing to a bit under marathon pace, break to stretch/change into flats, 4-6 mi of intervals plus associated recovery, 2 mi cooldown, 1 mi run home = 11 to 13 mi
That’s cool to know, that it’s standard fare for you. I’m thinking a 12-mile day should be ok. The following day will likely always be around 14, so an extended slog for me.
Join us on the Sub-1:30 half thread. It’s a good supportive group and it’s where I’ve done the majority of my posting. I believe you can do it this Fall and as you know, that does project a 3:10. Go for it.
Justin, thanks for the invite as well as the confidence, very sweet of you! I might join you guys sometime in the Fall, right now it’s hard enough keeping up with my 3:20 homies, we’re such a prolific group of posters.
You got a hell of a base,and your paces seem to have gotten faster naturally. So whether you choose to aim at sub-20 5K, sub-1:30 half, or sub-3:10 marathon I think it’s a matter of getting in the sharpening workouts to get there…
Thanks R2H, love how simple you make it sound. It’s still hard to think those things could happen since it’s been such a struggle but I’m beginning to believe!
Ahh, I like the vote of confidence for 3:20. So your race training program will trade some miles for speedwork by the sound of it. You got me thinking about Marathon weather, and I was wondering which race with a fast course had the most reliable weather. I’m pretty sure it’s not Chicago!
I’ll only start removing miles if I feel it’s necessary. If I was a kid doing this (which is really where my inspiration for this seasonal model comes from), I’d definitely drop the miles for the hard workouts a coach would prescribe. But kids do constant racing (weekly, sometimes more) and they do shorter distance. Seeing as how I’m an older gal doing the longer stuff, I think I can take an easier approach and may be able to keep it status quo. We’ll see – it’s all a work in progress!
As for that race you’re wondering about: Philly! Get your ass over here!! I’ve gotta say, it’s usually pretty swell weatherwise. But I always imagine rain and wind…just because I can.
Hahaha, “Because you can”
Kids (and their coaches) are also thinking short-term, not a long term build like you are doing.
True dat, my “because you can” compatriot.
So you’re doing the Flying Pig Marathon? :-) I love the “steal your money” comment. So true. Anyway, what about a 4-mile warmup, 2 x 3 tempo and then 2-4 cooldown? Hudson also has some 10+ mile workouts with fartleks that are quite fun, have you tried those?
Yes, I do like Hudson’s fartleks, that’s why I’m doing 60 on/offs, matter of fact. It’s great preparation for proper speed work.
Eventually tempo sessions won’t be a problem at all because they’re longer, but right now I’m doing short ones which means a good bit of surrounding mileage. It’s the interval sessions that will be more problematic, they’ll never be as long in total. But I think it’ll be fine, it’s just not optimal.
<3 <3 <3 that you will likely return to the marathon and LOVE your new speed and base building. I'm so excited for you!!!!!!! Maybe November? Sounds like a great month for a marathon and you wouldn't even have to travel!
Hah! Maybe November 2013! It’s going to take awhile. Love you too, sweetie.
I love your honesty and “no-B.S.” approach to your goals! Like you, I’m currently not in the market for a marathon either-it’s coming, but when I’m good and ready
! Nothin’ wrong with that, as it will likely make a much better experience.
Here’s to us taking our own sweet time. We sell no wine before its time, we run no marathons before it’s time. (though you’re probably too young to know the wine commercial reference, lol)
Haha-truth be told I’m not familiar with that one-but I do love me some wine!
Cheers!
I like that you have a possible marathon return a long way off and with a time commitment of 3:09:59. That’s a long enough time to be running a marathon anyway .) Can see you running sub-20 and 1:30 in the autumn or spring.
On the nutrition problem for marathons, if you can run 18 milers without gels you should be fine for a marathon. Nobody ever died of starvation running a marathon .) Also, on the beaten up feet thing, perhaps a larger shoe size as per this video Rick showed me the other day http://youtu.be/RI2GCO5WbnA
Lol, I like your take on starvation. Very true.
I think there’s an art to it though, so many crash and burn stories that come of that.
About the shoes…I used to wear larger shoes and they injured my feet worse (permanent thick toenail & arch pain since the arch was too large). I’ve been wearing Kinvaras for a year now and it wasn’t till I raised the mileage a few months ago that it happened, and it was in the span of about 2 weeks! So I think it was a one-and-done type of thing, I suspect related to that bridge I started traversing daily. Interesting video though, thanks for the link.
I laughed out loud when you made easy going mention that 70 mfw is casual. I dang near threw myself a graduation party when I moved up from my meager 30-40 track season training and finally hit 60! It has been since the 1997 that I hit 90 miles in one week. I was considering adding that to my summer 2012 mileage goal, but not ready to commit. Kind of like your sub 3:10 marathon. We are in denial even thought that’s exactly the direction we’re headed. Happy Trails and here’s to keeping our toe nails!
If you had told me at the first of the year that I was going to be doing this, I’d have laughed out loud and thought you were insane. This mileage level is a departure for me – though I had touched 80s for 3 weeks while peaking for a marathon, my average mileage last year was 54. I’d been in a long, long rut though and figured why not try something new? Seems to be working pretty well.
Yes, here’s to many attached and clearly white, not purple, toenails in our future. Cheers.