February 24th, 2010
Many thanks to Jim for turning me onto Veronique Billat’s workout, 30/30s. It wasn’t till I got home and downloaded my HR data that I really got the point of what these are about.
When you read about or explain the Billats, it’s human nature to want to compare it to something recognizable, so you think it must be like strides or fartleks. It’s neither. It’s an ocean wave of running. 30 seconds on, 30 seconds off, 20 times.
The difference between Billats and strides/fartlek is that the latter give you true recovery. With Billats, 30 seconds goes by in a flash, so while the work portions are fast, the recovery portions are seemingly over even faster. You literally do not recover, however, you get enough of a break that you can complete another surge.
But enough talk, here’s the dirt:
This is a 5×1000 workout I did in October (I’m using this to compare because I’ve only done 800s this cycle and they compare even less favorably than this one). My HR for the workout portion averaged 177 and hit 187 Max. I spent 12:33 at 183. It was 20:10 of hard running.
Here are today’s Billats (30sec on,30sec off)x20. I started them at mile 6.75 of an 11-miler. My HR for the workout portion averaged 181, hit 188Max and I spent 14:48 at 183. It was 10 minutes of hard running. Do you see? I spent more time “in the zone” for 1/2 the amount of hard running as regular intervals! Wow.
Funny thing was, I had a preconceived notion that it couldn’t be as good a workout since 10 minutes sounds so paltry. Truth is, the recoveries end up being included in the total time since your HR doesn’t have a chance to go down much. Who’d a thunk it?
Oh, and before anyone comments on how hard it’d be to keep track of that many intervals, it’s a simple matter of programming 30/30 or just 30 seconds into your Garmin or Ironman-type watch and setting it to repeat 20 or 40 times. Easy schmeasy.
Before I close, I wanted to update you on my resting HR after the whole quitting-pot-heart-rate-escalation phenomena. About a week and half ago, over 4 months since I quit, it finally, finally hit my old normal HR again. I’m really shocked at how long it was affected but utterly relieved that it’s back to good ole 48, flirting on 47. Took long enough.
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Why Thanks, Flo.
I see the same thing in my HR graph too. Cool huh? I have not measured my resting HR, but my recovery-pace HR is getting super-low. I wonder if the Billats have been helping with that too?
I would imagine so, it’s all going towards improved fitness so congrats! I really was astounded with the results of this, it’s like running 20 hard minutes but not. It’s clearly as valid a speed session as any (if not more so for me, as the above example illustrates). Love it! I owe you a drink in Boston.
You know what else, this would make a great session for “regular” interval people to do on windy days, since 30 secs at a time would be easier then fighting through for 3-4 minutes.
Wow, that is a crazy workout! I am glad that your heart rate is back to normal.
jeez that looks tough! i bet i’d be sneaking in extra seconds for recovery haha!
and my numbers/data obsessed mind absolutely LOVES the charts. it just makes the work so much more real to me too see it laid out like that. way cool
It looks tougher than it feels, that’s why I was shocked to see how dense a workout it ended up being. I mean, it’s still a speed workout so you’re definitely working, but 5×1000 is way harder in my book. Of course, we’re all different so YMMV but that was my perception.
Those look like fun. Painful fun, but still fun. :-) After my legs rest up a bit, I might give them a whirl.
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing the HR graphs too. It is pretty amazing. I really don’t like doing repeats over 800m. Call me a wuss if you’d like.;)
Great news on the resting HR, too! You just may be setting yourself up for a great “final” marathon.
I wouldn’t call you a wuss, I’d call you a brother in training – I’m right there with you. I don’t like going over 800s and I don’t like doing 6 or more of anything long either, lol.
Don’t know about a great final marathon but if I can speed up a bit in the next few weeks, there’ll be hope.
Now take care of your bumped head, sweetie. Talk about Ouch.
Noobie question: If one is not HR training can one still do this workout and get anything out of it? In other words would it be effective at all to do the 30 on and 30 off alternating hard effort and recovery effort or is this dependent on HR zones?
Completely!! I’m not HR training, I just wear the monitor to keep tabs on improvement. Anyone doing this will end up with the same profile as the one above, you can’t not.
As for pace, you’re supposed to do a test by running all out for 6 minutes, then divide it by 30 for your VO2max, but I just went faster than 5K pace and will aim to go a bit faster each time. The main thing is you should be cooked by 20, if you’re not, keep going till you are and the next time, do ‘em faster.
Thanks for this Flo, I think I will give it a try. How often do you plan to do this workout?
Once a week, it’ll be my key speed workout for Boston from here on in. I may do them on the museum ramp again a couple times to get some hillishness worked into it…I’ll play it by ear.
This looks like it might actually be FUN! I love running fast, (everything is relative), and I think of myself as a sprinter at heart. As soon as the weather breaks, I will look into how to set the Garmin for this. I have barely used mine since I bought it in Dec.
Nice RHR there girlie. When I was in the midst of my ECG the other day, it was cool to watch mine go down as I relaxed in the “pre” reading time. I bumped it down to 49 once, but mainly stayed around 51-53. Not bad for an old outa shape slacker. Thanks for the blog!
You just put a GREAT idea in my head for another video but this time with screen capture software. I’ll go through a step by step instruction on how to program your Garmin with Training Center because I know a ton of people never get around to it because they don’t know how, but it’s easy. Cool, thank you!
And yay on your low RHR!
super cool! We’ve done a track workout that I think might have similar physiological consequences, 300 @ 3K pace with a 100 @ 10K pace recovery (up to 2 sets of 10 with a 5-10 min rest in between). You end up feeling like the recoveries hurt and the on part is easy. This makes me feel silly for never having bothered to connect my Garmin to my computer, but since my HRM rusted over inside, I’m in need of a replacement before I can generate awesome graphs.
GIM -I have a question I’m sure you can answer!
If your heart is in the VO2max zone but your legs are not running at VO2max pace (eg during the frequent brief recovery periods in this workout) is the benefit still there?
On a different (but possibly related question) – last summer I posted a question about running in the heat. If your legs are going at LT pace but the heat has your HR into VO2max zone does that count as VO2max work? The consensus opinion of the MRT braintrust was “no” – the training stimulus depended on your actual pace (what your leg are doing) rather than your HR. I still find this a bit confusing.
Thanks for any insight/info.
- rovatti
Don’t be sure I can answer it! Lol. I don’t know the specifics of that stuff (my retention/interest has a low ceiling) but of course a benefit will still be there!
Any time you push yourself in a workout you’re improving your aerobic/anaerobic engine. This whole workout was designed with the HR in mind. If it wasn’t effective, it wouldn’t be touted by the sports physiologists and science guys. It’s also used with other sports, incidentally, like cyclists and swimmers.
As for the legspeed/recovery connection to VO2 question, yes it counts, otherwise hillwork could not be considered VO2work since your legs move quite a bit slower on hills.
On the question to the braintrust, running in the heat is a different scenario because it increases your HR not from effort but from environment, so that’s not the same thing as pushing it up there within a workout.
For me, specifically at this time in my training, I’m less concerned with what is the absolute best correct thing to do than what will excite me and keep me interested. Luckily, I don’t feel there’s a tradeoff since the results of Billat’s testing is it makes people faster. Ain’t that the point?
Yes, getting faster and having fun is the whole point!
NOW, what if you are running down a gentle slope in ideal weather – you hit your VO2max pace, but it’s so easy that your HR is still in LT land? Just Kidding!
- rovatti
I did similar workouts when I was stuck on the bike — 30 seconds all out/ 30 seconds recovery; or 45 seconds on/45 seconds off. My legs didn’t have the strength to go hard for more than about 45 seconds, but I thought that by doing it this way, at least the HR was up.
I’m not a big fan of 30 on/30 off for running, just because I believe that workouts are to develop both physical and mental capacity — traditional intervals ask me mental toughness questions similar to the ones I’ll face on race day (I don’t like pyramids for this reason either). But that’s just me, and if it works for others — great!
I totally get your point about the mental toughness bit but I think tempos and MP miles will cover that department. My feeling is that not every workout has to test those things equally and that if speed is improved, it’ll make race pace that much easier (I’m not trying to improve my goal pace, just make it easier).
Oh boy, all those technical questions! Mind if I jump in?
My understanding is that there are two separate benefits from speedwork. You are teaching your legs how to go fast, and increasing your maximum oxygen uptake (VO2max). That’s not just your heart, but also lungs, capillaries, mitochondria, etc. Going uphill will change the leg-training aspect – you’ll learn to run uphill better!
Running in the heat increases your HR without increasing oxygen consumption. The extra blood flow is for cooling purposes. That can be a useful mechanism to train if you’re expecting to race in the heat.
On the mental toughness aspect, these things are done until you can do no more, which to a certain extent depends on how tough you are feeling that day!
Yay Jim! Answered much better than my attempt. I bow to your smartypants-ness.
Thanks JimE.
While I’m thinking about this – do you or GIM know if anyone has tried a “Billats”-style tempo workout? (eg maybe running 10K pace in lots of small segments for a longer time?) Sorry if this is tiresome…
- rovatti
Rovatti, you’re so creative.
I don’t think it’d be useful since a tempo is meant to be a continuous effort. Two or 3 sections is the most I’ve seen anyone split it, usually 10-15min sections and around 2-min between.
My take: we are trying to develop an energy system or “gear” – VO2max or LT.
Should we run the workout in one segment, 2, 3, 8, or 20? (I dunno, I’m just thinking out loud here…)
- rovatti
Not sure what you mean: if LT, then a very few segments though for VO2max, seems to be as many segments as needed to get the proper effect. Do you have a 7 mile tempo on your schedule you don’t want to do or something?
Btw, there’s a cap on 4 replies per comment but feel free to start a fresh one if you want to keep going. (If I don’t cap it, the formatting goes all screwy)
Thats a good workout and fast whit sort rest!.
Your max HR is hige and looks like a young running ladie!.
Next time try the climax run!!!.
Waarschijnlijk heb je er nog nooit van gehoord en je zal verbaasd staan!.
Je gaat goed Flo
Greet from Rinus.
Flo, thanks for reminding us about that workout. I’d heard of it, but only tried it once — not sure why, maybe I’m a slave to exact times/numbers for intervals. How slow are you going in the 30 ‘slow’? Do you get slower in these bits?
You have to go slower or you’d explode. :-) My recoveries were across the board, from 7:46 to 9:12, averaging out to 8:30 – that’s my usual GA pace though I was just playing it by ear.
Billat says to do them at half speed, so for instance if the fast segments were at 6:00 pace, recoveries would be at 12:00. I don’t go quite that slowly (except after the last one, when I walk whilst noisily sucking air). I don’t think the recovery pace is critical, provided you don’t stop.
They’re supposed to be 50% VO2max which I assume would be faster than 50% of the fast pace, though I didn’t calculate it out. Is that really equivalent to double the pace? Doesn’t seem right.
Interesting that your profile looked like mine then since your recoveries are much slower. Also interesting that I could do 20 (if that’s correct), it means I should have gone faster.
OK, just reread, it does describe 50%Vo2max as going half the distance, so that’s the same, I thought it’d be a portion of that (thinking in HR mode, I guess) it didn’t occur to me to go that slow. Good to know.
Veronique’s taking speed – vVO2max (note the extra v) is the “on” velocity. Also don’t forget that she uses a treadmill, so she has to decide on a recovery speed when programming it. Half speed is as good as any. Is there a way of posting pictures here these days? I could show you mine, now that you’ve shown me yours
Heh heh, you can’t post pics on comments but you could put them on your site and link to them in a comment (you can just link to them individually if you don’t want to make a whole post about it). Please do, as I’m curious.
So I ran my recoveries way faster than I needed though it seemed right since I was cooked at the end. Guess I have more speed to grab then. Cool beans.
Done. http://runnerjim.wordpress.com/2010/02/26/a-bit-more-billat/
Thanks, just left a reply.
I find the 30/30 Billat intervals very difficult to execute correctly. I cannot settle in the target pace that quickly, so my pace ends up being all over the place. How do you manage it?
I don’t really aim for consistent pace, more like “run as hard as I can” while trying to leave enough in the tank to do 20. I figure it’s less about hitting perfect pace, like you’d try to in intervals, it’s more about hitting VO2max and staying there. It’d probably be easier to pace well if done on a track but I’m on a bike path with some ups and downs so it’s bound to vary.
Well, I read Billat’s paper and she says that you don’t have to nail the recovery pace but you absolutely have to nail the vVO2max pace for this to be effective. Supposedly going any faster than vVO2max will recruit the anaerobic metabolic processes, rather than the aerobic ones you want to target. Even her criterion for when to terminate the session is when you miss the vVO2max pace for two consecutive intervals.
I do 60/60 Billats instead, as that is long enough for me to find the groove, although Billat recommends that schedule as the next step up, for more advanced runners, and I am anything but advanced (my vVO2max is 6:45).
Have you actually tracked your progress (Billat recommends that you retest your vVO2max every 4-6 weeks)? Did you actually see any progress? If so, would you mind posting a graph (or table) of how your vVO2max changed over time?
I only did them over the course of a month (4 times) and yes, I saw progress each time. After that month, I switched back to regular intervals since I was prepping for Boston and with only a few weeks left, it made sense to return to longer workbouts. Sorry, no graphs on vVO2max, best to ask someone who did them by the book – though they’d tell you to start with 30/30s.
After you determine how far you should run in 30 seconds and mark in on a track or flat road also mark the halfway point. You should reach the halfway point in 15 seconds. Take a peek at you watch and adjust your speed.
Do the same for 60 -60 workouts. Look at your watch at the halfway point and adjust your pace as necessary.
Note running all out is not the idea. Running at the prescribed pace is critical.
Running the recoveries at half that speed is not critical. Close is good enough. The time is more important. The recovery time should be the same as your item time.